Go Where You’re Invited By Faith
Insights from the “Lead2Serve” Podcast
Season 5. Episode 9
Embracing Divine Appointments: A Conversation with Pastors Ed Taylor and Bob Claycamp
As the host of the Lead2Serve podcast, I had the privilege of sitting down with Pastor Bob Claycamp. Our conversation surrounded the critical concept of “going where you’re invited” as a leader and servant of God. It was a discussion rich with wisdom, personal anecdotes, and spiritual guidance that I am blessed to share with you.
The Call to Serve Beyond Comfort Zones
Pastor Ed and Bob opened up about the challenges and rewards of stepping out of their comfort zones. They shared how accepting divine appointments—those unexpected God-given opportunities to serve—often requires us to face potential drama and challenges head-on. Yet, in these moments, we can truly minister to others and make a significant impact.
Availability and Willingness: The Heart of Ministry
A recurring theme in our discussion was the importance of being available and willing to serve, no matter the circumstances. We both emphasized that our readiness to help others should not be conditional. Instead, we should seek guidance from the Holy Spirit and make decisions that honor God, even if it means venturing into the unknown.
Balancing Faith and Common Sense
A vital truth raised during our discussion was the balance between following divine leadings and not abandoning common sense. Accepting invitations to serve doesn’t mean we disregard practical wisdom. We highlighted the need to approach each opportunity with honor and respect, recognizing the responsibility that comes with our roles as spiritual leaders.
The Impact of Saying “Yes”
The conversation ultimately circled back to the positive outcomes of being open to invitations. Both of us agreed that saying “yes” to God’s call had led to personal growth and development and the chance to serve others in meaningful ways. It was a powerful reminder that our willingness to go where we are invited can open doors to bless and be blessed.
I hope this blog post captures the essence of our conversation and inspires you to consider how you can be more open to divine appointments in your own life. Remember, each invitation to serve is an opportunity to witness God’s grace in action.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Intro VO:
This is Lead2Serve with Ed Taylor, a leadership podcast.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
Welcome to another edition of the Lead2Serve podcast. I’m grateful you’ve been with us for all of these weeks now. My name is Ed Taylor. I’m the pastor here at Calvary church in-studio, as you well know for this season. Pastor Bob Claycamp. Welcome, Bob.
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
Great. Good to be here.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
Glad you’re here. Glad you’re making the time. I know it’s not easy with everything that’s going on. And we get to serve together here, as we have for the last four-and-a-half years here at Calvary Church in Aurora, Colorado. We’re in Season 5, as you well know, of the Lead2Serve podcast. I really appreciate all your feedback, your texts, your emails, your phone calls. Thank you forwarding it and getting the word out, even the reviews. We are so grateful. We could use a lot more reviews, by the way. So I know you keep hearing it and hearing it, and you intend…sometimes Marie and I do that. Marie’s my wife. Sometimes we do that with Yelp or something and we just forget to do it. We need to do it. When you’re thinking about it, put a good review. If it’s a bad review, just email Bob, and Bob will take care of it and he will make any improvements he needs to make so that we don’t have bad reviews. But if they’re good, put them up on the podcast. If they’re bad, really let us know. We’d like to hear what your feedback is so we could grow in the grace of God, too. We want this to be a meaningful and quite frankly, we haven’t really had bad reviews or bad input. There’s been some input on improvement and we appreciate that. Or something we could do better. That’s great because we want it to be effective, but at the same time, we’re just in a studio together across from a desk with two microphones in front of us talking about ministry, talking about life. It’s not scripted, although we do have a few notes written down and some topics to cover. It’s not scripted. So what you’re listening to is what it would be like if we’re at a pastor’s meeting or a staff meeting or if were back in my office talking about, “Hey, Bob, come in and let’s talk about this.” Or “what do you think about that?” That’s what the podcast is. And, you know, our goal is to help you grow in your servant leadership so that you might glorify God in everything that you do. And you know the tag, right? The better servant you are, the better leader you’ll become. And the better leader you’ll become will give you a broader depth of servanthood. So these times we have on podcast are short, but they’re designed to discuss important topics that’ll help you serve the Lord better. No matter where you are. You could be at home, single, married, single parent, kiddos, you’re a CEO or you just started in ministry. Whatever you are, God is ready to be with you. And we are on week number nine, I think. Nine. And here’s the topic. I like this one. This is an interesting topic. Kind of changes, kind of changes a little bit from where were, but also hits it pretty well. Cause if we’re talking about finishing our race and running our race, this one kind of hits well. And that is this, number eight. “Go where you’re invited.” Go where you’re invited. Many, many times we see Jesus being invited to various places and he goes as a representative of God the Father, as God in human flesh. He goes like, for example, he was at the wedding in Cana. Why was He at the wedding in Cana? Because He was invited, that’s why. And He went. And it was a dynamic, wonderful time. And so, in a general sense, if you want to be more effective, which is the theme of this season, and really, quite frankly, it’s the theme of the entire podcast, we want to be more usable, we want to be more effective, and we want to talk very practically of how to do ministry better. If you want to be more effective, you want to learn how to “go where you’re invited.” What are your thoughts?
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
Well, there are so many opportunities that we can have, but God has given us the Holy Spirit to give us a sense of “rightness,” whether we should step into the opportunity or pass on the opportunity. And it’s not based upon how you feel about it. It’s based upon, “what is the right thing to do in this situation?” And God give me the leading – because some things are awkward. Some things, you know that if you do it, you’re going to end up getting pushback. And I don’t want pushback. I don’t need pushback in my life. But what is the Father impacting you to do in this situation? Do it. And, you know, sometimes the invitation, like when I finished up ministering in Windsor, the very next day, I got a phone call from the UK saying, “Can you come over and help us?” And I never say “yes,” usually right away. I said, you know, “we’ll get back with you.” So my wife and I prayed about it and we really had a sense from the Lord that, yes, we are to step, somehow, step into the opportunity. We didn’t have the resources, but we were to do it. And those opportunities that come to you aren’t just what it looks like on the surface. It’s the tip of the iceberg. But you’ll never find out the whole iceberg until you take that initial step and just commit to go and then God will be with you, like Jesus did on so many occasions. When He even took the dinner that Matthew offered with all the publicans and sinners that were there, it was a joy to Him, but He knew there were going to be pushback again.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
As we’re talking about these things or talking about anything, we’re not suspending common sense. So don’t suspend common sense here when you hear the phrase. Cecause it’s a phrase…it’s just a catchy phrase to help you remember that these divine appointments from the Lord, “you should go where you’re invited.” You should step into them. But let’s not suspend common sense to the plate. Like, you can’t do everything. So you can’t accept every invitation. You can’t go to every invitation. I think of an invitation to a ceremony that’s between a man and a man saying they’re “getting married.” That’s not a wedding. And if you’re invited to that, especially as a pastor, you can’t go. Like, that’s dishonoring God. Like, it’s blasphemous. So don’t suspend common sense here where you are in a place where, well, you know, they invited me to this satanic ritual. No, no, don’t “go where you’re invited.” It’s probably a good chance that you’re not going to go there. You know, you’re going to be led by the Holy Spirit. You’re going to use common sense. You’re going to make your decision as unto the Lord. So setting that aside, though, what I’m thinking about when I hear this, that men and women need to hear, need to understand pastors, leaders, whatever, is, many times we don’t go where we’re invited because we don’t want to deal with the drama of that invitation. For example, if I go there, those people left our church a long time ago. They’re very mad at me. So if I go to that party, they’re going to be there. And, you know, I just don’t want to deal with it. Well, there’s a lot of other people at that party and you should make your decision based on what the Lord wants you to do. Not avoiding something, “avoiding drama.” I’ll give you an example of how this was developed in my life when I moved here. When I moved to Colorado to plant the church, I was green as green could be. I didn’t know anything about anything in regards of overseeing a church or leading a church in that respect. I had served at my sending church as a singles pastor for almost three years, but I wasn’t on staff.
Speaker 2
So I’d go to work in the world, and then I’d come and teach on Thursday nights and do different things as a lay leader, a lay pastor, or I was a licensed pastor, actually, there, but I worked full-time. So when I moved here, I didn’t understand the politics of ministry or the difficulties. I didn’t know. I got a taste of it, but I wasn’t the responsible one, so I didn’t feel the full weight. So when I was here first year or so, I am walking down the aisle of Costco, and back then, the Costcos were very empty because the population was much less than it is today. And there’s a brother there, and I say, “Hey, brother so-and-so.” He was an assistant pastor at another Calvary here in town. “Hey, brother so-and-so, how you doing?” And for the next ten minutes, he just ripped Calvary Chapel. He ripped his pastor, he just, because he had been let go for misappropriations or something, he got…something happened. I don’t remember the details. And I must have just hit him that week. And I don’t know anything about, like, I didn’t, I’ve never been in a Costco where somebody accosted me. And like, I didn’t, like, “whoa, whoa, whoa.” And what God was prepping me for, because I called the pastor, I said, “What’s going on?” He says, “Well, this is what happened; can’t give you all the details, but he’s just really mad.” “Oh, yeah, let me tell you how mad he is.” I get it. He says, “Well, let’s pray for him.” We prayed for him and we moved on. And then over the years, as I’ve seen people leave here upset at me, weren’t able to resolve it, or they just ran away and posted things about me, slander me, whatever. They never left the city. They just left the church. So I still see them at Costco, I still see them at Sam’s Club, Walmart, whatever. The Lord gave me this word because it was awkward, and I would want to avoid it. And who wants to deal with that kind of drama? Like, I don’t want to argue. I don’t. And the Lord gave me this word. It was just in daily devos, I was reading through the book of Joshua, and Joshua was told, “Wherever the sole of your feet tread, I’ve given to you” (Joshua 1:3). And the Lord said, “that’s you, Ed; I have given anywhere you are in this city.” I’ve given it to you. So whoever you meet, whoever you come in contact with, whoever they “used to be,” whatever, if there’s going to be any drama, it’s not going to be from you because I want you there. So if you meet them in Costco, I want you there. If they’re at the same birthday party you were at, I want you there. And I want you to step into that with a sense of honor and respect for the role that you’re in. I want you to serve them, love them, and don’t let it become…and it was a big…it sounds pretty simple enough, but it was a big deal for me because I didn’t know how to handle those things. So I would just deny invitations because I didn’t want to deal with the drama.
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
Yeah. Comfort zones are what we enjoy, but we don’t realize that they are valleys. They are “valleys with borders.” And to step out of that into an opportunity that’s outside of your comfort zone is threatening. It’s insecure, potential drama. How am I going to deal with it? I don’t need this in my life. And we have all kinds of reasons, but comfort zones end up being quicksand because they don’t elevate you to the next level. Comfort zones pull you down.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
Yeah. And they trap you. I like that illustration. Being in a valley or a rut, “with walls.” They trap you there. You never really get out. You can’t climb out. And that, this sense of this, the excitement of this, too….so that’s a difficult illustration of this. But, again, if you’re a leader or a pastor, like, I know there’s going…the longer you walk with the Lord, the longer you stay in a particular church, the longer you live in a community. You’re just going to have messy relationships. It doesn’t have to be bad or even antagonistic. You’re just going to have messy relationships. You’re going to have former neighbors that moved out, but they actually moved around the corner, or you’re going to have people that were in your church or you’re going to have somebody that came to fix your heater and broke it, or, like, it’s just messy because life is messy. But as a representative of the Lord, a spiritual leader, to serve better, we need to step into a situation like that and be ready to serve. Be ready to check in on their family. Whether they have tension or not, they still are human, they still have issues. They still…you’re still a pastor, you’re still a leader. You’re still an elder in your church. Why would, why would you not want to go to little Johnny’s birthday party and see him blow out his candles and then just minister to whoever’s in the room?
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
I used to have a poster in my office. It was a sailboat, and the caption was, “calm seas never made great captains.” And the Lord puts things in front of you to develop you. And because he knows that comfort zones are not healthy. And so it’s not that you look for drama, but it comes to you. I mean, life is that way. It’s going to be that way until your last breath. There’s going to be issues. The whole issue of retirement…you know, where you’re just going to, “Oh, I’m just going to settle back and play golf the rest of my life.” What a great life, dude. What about Heaven? What about treasure in Heaven? What about what’s ahead? What about the spiritual quality of your life and all. God uses those adversities, those trials, those challenges, those “rough seas,” to grow you. To develop you. Because any time you forget you’re supposed to stay green, you’ll end up rotting.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
Did I hear you correctly? There’s no retirement because Marie and I, we have a plan. We’re going to open up a taco shop in Playa del Carmen, and we’re going to sell tacos until noon. We’re going to make us enough money.
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
Well, as long as it’s fish tacos.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
No, no. Yeah, carne asada. But, I mean, I guess we might have to “go to the market,” you know, whatever the market demands. And we’re going to sell tacos until noon and then just hang out, take a little nap, siesta, and then get up and enjoy our time. So are you saying that’s not possible?
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
Well, anything’s possible.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
I was thinking in relation of going where you’re invited, where there isn’t a dynamic of this, where you’re being led by the Holy Spirit, right? God wants you a certain place. The default answer on an invitation is, “Yeah, I want to be there.” I want to do that. I want to be available. It’s that availability, right. The characteristics of a usable person would be a spiritual person, a teachable person, someone who’s faithful, but then all those are really not useful if they’re not available…if they don’t make themselves available. And when I learn how to go where I’m invited, I’m going to end up in places that not everybody’s going to understand. Not everybody’s going to like, not everybody is going to…“you know I would never do that,” right? And you just like, no, the Lord wants me there, and He…I don’t know why He wants me there. I’m not sure what He wants to do yet. But if it’s not sin, then like we have here, if we do anything short of sin, if it’s not sin, and I’m not approving of sin, then I should develop a perspective of man. This is probably from the Lord. I need to pray like you did with your England. You don’t know if you’re going, but your heart was there. Like, so, like, yeah, I’m ready to go. And then I look at reality and, well, if I’m going to go, then God’s going to provide this and He’s going to give this, and as I pray, He’s going to make it clear to me. So it’s more of the heart of the matter where, “Hey, Lord, I’m yours.” And when I first got saved, and I mean that in general for all of us, it’s like, “I’m going to go anywhere and do anything for the Lord.” And over time, I’m like,” yeah, you know, nah, you know, it’s too much.” And, you know, people just phone it in and, “yeah, you know, I don’t want to do a hospital visit…the Super Bowl’s on.” What? Seriously? What do you mean you’re not going to do a hospital visit? “Well, the Super Bowl is on.” Okay, yeah, all right. I mean, that tells me your heart. You’re going to watch the Super bowl while somebody is, well, how about this? Why don’t you go to the room and pray with them and watch the Super Bowl with them? Like, why is there, why is it automatically a decision? And I’ve watched this over the years. That’s not an example that’s happened recently, as the Super Bowl just passed. But I’ve seen guys make that decision, like, “Oh, no, I can’t.” What do you mean you can’t? You said “yes,” when you were born again. You said “yes,” when you, like, this person can’t get out of the hospital bed and you’ll be there after the Super Bowl is over. And again, that’s a silly illustration, but it actually illustrates a darkened heart. Like this person needs encouragement, this person needs a pastor to represent the Lord. And I’m sorry, “God’s watching the Super Bowl right now, I can’t make it.” Because that’s really what we’re saying. We represent the Lord and we’re going to schedule around it, and I just can’t make it. Not good?
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
No, it’s not good.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
Go where you’re invited. I like what you also said, that these opportunities, well, a couple of things. One, you know, all these challenges and “steps outside,” trials, testings, adversity, they develop the character of Christ in us. That’s what God’s doing in us as we yield our lives to Him. But also, when you do end up showing up to a place, because you did take the invitation, I’m reminded of Romans 12:18, “If it’s possible, as much as depends upon you, live peaceably with all men.” And because there’s tension or messiness between you and me, I need to be mature enough in my leadership, in my servanthood not to allow your problem with me to hold me back from being used by God.
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
Yeah. I mean, in myself, I’m a bit…I’m an introvert. I get energized by being alone and stepping into a crowd of people I don’t know is awkward for me unless I can go and I can “have a purpose,” or something like that. I mean, I remember when I first went to England, I was invited to this group of regional pastors in the area and meeting at a real super fancy hotel for a real fancy dinner. And so I have to dress up because everybody’s like, “dressed to the nines.” And I don’t want to be there, but I know I should because I have to somehow interact. And so, I’m there, everybody’s talking to everybody else, and I’m by myself and nobody’s talking to me. Nobody’s introducing themselves to me – I’m kind of like the “weird guy,” that’s there. Although I look like them, I mean, I’m dressed up and all, and then my phone goes off. But I programmed my phone that when I got a call from the United States, it would play the “Star Spangled Banner.” And so I’m there standing, just awkward. And all of a sudden my phone rings and it’s the “Star Spangled Banner,” and everybody hears it and they stop talking and look at me. And it’s like, you know, it’s like that old Southwest Airlines, “wanna get away?” I mean, it was terrible, but I knew I was supposed to be there because there was no other way to start developing relationships one-by-one, somehow. And so you walk into it, you just do it, and you see what happens.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
There’s a sense of yielding yourself to what God wants for you over and above what you want for yourself. And even as you describe it’s very strange or interesting that many pastors, even dynamic pastors, are very introverted. I don’t know why. I don’t know why that’s the case. Although they are able to adapt and be used, probably supernaturally, to minister to a large group of people, there’s a tendency where a lot of pastor friends that I have would have that same testimony, that they’re more introverted than they are extroverted on that scale. However, as you’re describing it, I can see how the personality type that we have becomes an excuse for not following the lead of the, you know, so “I don’t want to go because of these people here.” “I don’t want to go because I’m introverted and I get exhausted at these places.” I don’t want to go or I don’t…and it’s subtle, or not so subtle, but the end result is “I’m not going where I’m invited.” I’m not acknowledging that this may have come from the Lord, so I’m not even praying about it. Let’s say I get ten invitations. I may not even pray about the ten. I was like, no, “I don’t want to do any of them.” But my heart is wrong. It’s not whether I go or not, and it’s not even what my personality is. It’s the heart of the matter. So much of our lives in ministry is very challenging because they’re heart issues. And as a pastor, I can’t touch your heart. I can’t do anything about your heart. Only the Lord can. And I want the Lord touch my heart. And one of the things that comes through this sense of going where I’m invited is the Lord wants me there, most likely, or I wouldn’t have got the invitation. The Lord wants me there. Then I need to learn to be following His lead, to, like you said, stepping out of comfort. But it comes out of a time of prayer, you know? And that’s. I see a lot of this. These invitations with conferences or teaching at churches or doing leadership development at churches, like, I want to go where I’m invited. I don’t want to go where I’m not invited or I’m not wanted.
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
And on the flip side, you don’t force yourself into situations where you’re not invited.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
Right?
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
And so that’s, you know, Jesus addresses that, you know, “taking the higher seat,” so to speak (Luke 14:10).
Pastor Ed Taylor:
That’s just as important, because we can. We can make things happen and then say “the Lord did it.” And I don’t…I can’t…I can’t say I’m innocent of that. I’ve certainly done it before, but I can’t really live with myself. I don’t want to manipulate. I don’t want to be Jacob. I want to be Israel. I want God to do it. And so most of my conversations are with Him, and most of His answers are, “it’s going to be okay, son; don’t worry about it.” Like, you’re fine. “Look, to Me, follow Me.” But this principle is super important, where we want to learn to be, and it doesn’t even have to be like, we’re thinking of an invitation to a party, to a house, just an invitation into a life. “Will you come and see my mom at the hospital?” “Will you come to my house and pray for my daughter?” “Will you come over to this side of the room?” You know, we’re in the sanctuary. “Can you come over here for a minute…’cause I wanna introduce you to someone.” I just wanna go where I’m invited. Which also reminds me that I need to be sensitive, to listen for the Holy Spirit when He’s inviting me, when He wants when and where He wants me.
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
And it’ll probably be random. You probably won’t get a word saying in the next ten minutes, “there’s going to be this person that’s going to come to you and ask you this.” Now, it’s all just instant in-season and out-of-season. And your conscious communication with the Lord is essential to preparing you for those moments.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
Well, even you being here today was the last minute. I was looking at my schedule. I had some time spaced out. And yesterday I’m like, you know, “Hey, Kevin, are you going to be here tomorrow?” “Yeah, I think I’ll be here tomorrow.” “Hey, Bob, can you be here tomorrow?” And you’re like, “Yeah, I think so.” And as you processed it, “Yeah, let’s do it.” Let’s come together and do some recording for a podcast. And you were invited and requested, and you’re here. And this wouldn’t even take place if you didn’t go where you’re invited, right?
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
That’s true. I think you have to have an attitude, like, “I want to step forward into new things,” and generally it’s going to be a “yes,” unless I get a check from the Holy Spirit that there’s something fishy about the whole thing. And even then you still just because it smells funny, it doesn’t mean you’re not supposed to do it. It just. You have to have further information.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
Well, we come to another ending to an episode of Lead2Serve. So glad that you’ve chosen to join us. Stay in touch with us. Leave a great review. Text me if you have any comments or input, 720-608-0012. Email me at ed@edtaylor.org. Until next time, this is the Lead2Serve podcast coming to you, recorded live, but it is recorded, from Aurora, Colorado. Actually from the studios of GraceFM. So pray for us and our radio network that it will continue to reach many with the gospel of Jesus Christ. God bless you, guys.
Outro VO:
Thank you for joining us for this episode of Lead2Serve with Pastor Ed Taylor, a leadership podcast from Calvary Church in Aurora, Colorado. If you have a leadership question you want to hear answered on a future Lead2Serve podcast, please email it to pastored@calvaryco.church
And if you like our podcast, please subscribe, rate or review us on iTunes and share us with your friends on social media. Thanks again for joining us and we’ll see you next time right here on the Lead2Serve podcast.
